Si Arkanghel Miguel ba ang ating Panginoong HesuKristo?

Frostwhite wrote:

Eh, si Arkanghel Miguel, walang mababasang sumaway siya sa demonio. Kaya, ang tanong ko, meron bang mababasa sa Biblia na sumaway kay satanas si Miguel Arkanghel?

Tinatanong kita, kapag ba hindi na sinaway e ibig sabihin hindi na kaya?

Kaya nga, ang counter-question ko: Saan sa Biblia na sumaway si Miguel Arkanghel kay satanas? Pag wala sa Biblia, eh di, walang kakayahan na si Miguel Arkanghel ay sumaway kay satanas.

Frostwhite wrote:

May dala-dala ba Siyang trumpeta pagka bababa Siya mula sa langit?

Ano nga ba ang trumpeta dito G. Nagsusuri? Ano nga ba ang purpose nito?
May gusto lang akong linawing bagay. sabi "with God's trumpet", sa inyo bang paniniwala ay may humahawak nito?

Ano ba ang ginagawa sa trumpeta? Nilalakaran? O hinahawakan?

Sagutin niyo to, mga kapatid kong Saksi ni Jehova. Magkapareho kasi ang pagkakabuo ng Awit 47:5 at I Tesalonica 4:16, kaya, huwag kayong umiwas! Ang nasa Awit 47:5, "ang Panginoon NA MAY tunog ng trumpeta," at sa I Tesalonica 4:16, "ang Panginoon.. NA MAY tinig ng arkanghel." Sagutin niyo.

Nagsusuri wrote:

nobody wrote:

Nagsusuri wrote:

Frostwhite wrote:Gaya nga ng sabi ko G. Nagsusuri, walang problema sa pakapak, ang porblema e ang TINIG NG ARKANGHEL.

Edit: Sorry, pakakak pala. hehe

Kapatid, pansinin po ninyo ang dalawang talata:

Awit 47:5
Ang Dios ay napailanglang na may hiyawan, ang Panginoon na may tunog ng pakakak.

1 Mga Taga-Tesalonica 4:16, Ang Salita ng Diyos
Ito ay sapagkat ang Panginoon din ang siyang bababa mula sa langit na may isinisigaw na utos, na may tinig ng pinunong-anghel at may trumpeta ng Diyos. Ang mga patay kay Cristo ay unang magbabangon.

Ano po ang sabi sa Awit 47:5? "Ang Panginoon NA MAY tunog ng pakakak (trumpeta)." Sa I Tesalonica 4:16? "Ang Panginoon din ang siyang bababa mula sa langit .. NA MAY tinig ng pinunong-anghel (arkanghel)." Ang tanong ko, ayon sa Awit 47:5, sino ang may tunog ng trumpeta?

Kaibigang Nagsusuri, mawalang galang na ano? Pero gusto ko lang tugunan ang ibinangon mong sagot. Ang sabi kasi sa Awit ay "MAY TUNOG ng pakakak", HINDI po "may TINIG ng pakakak." Ang nasa 1 Tesalonica, TINIG NG ARKANGHEL na taglay ng Panginoong Jesu-Kristo at HINDI TUNOG NG PAKAKAK. At hindi po iyan ang punto natin, ang punto rito ay "may tinig ng arkanghel" ang Panginoong Jesus, ang salitang arkanghel sa Bibliya ay lumilitaw sa isahang anyo lamang, at sa Judas 9 ay ipinakilala na ang arkanghel ay may pangalang Miguel, SAMAKATUWID, KUNG ang arkanghel ay lumilitaw sa pang-isahang anyo lamang at ito ay nginanlang Miguel at si Jesus ay may "tinig ng arkanghel", hindi ba makatuwirang IISA nga sila? Nasusundan nyo po ba?

Ayon sa Awit 47:5, taglay ba ng Dios ang TUNOG ng Trumpeta?

Huwag mong dadagdagan ang nakasulat, kapatid!

Sino ba ang nagdadagdag?

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010)
Because our Lord shall descend from Heaven with a command and with the voice of the Archangel and with the trumpet blast of God, and the dead who are in The Messiah shall rise first;

New International Version (1984)
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

New Living Translation (2007)
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves.

English Standard Version (2001)
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
The Lord will come from heaven with a command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet [call] of God. First, the dead who believed in Christ will come back to life.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first.

Weymouth New Testament
For the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven with a loud word of command, and with an archangel's voice and the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Huwag ka sanang magparatang G. Nagsusuri.

Kaya nga, ang counter-question ko: Saan sa Biblia na sumaway si Miguel Arkanghel kay satanas? Pag wala sa Biblia, eh di, walang kakayahan na si Miguel Arkanghel ay sumaway kay satanas.

Hindi mo ata nabasa ang post ko ukol dito Ginoo.


Ianalyze nating mabuti G. Nagsusuri. Ano ba ang gusto ni Satanas dito? Nagawa ba nya ang gusto nya? Bakit hindi nya nagawa ang gusto nya? Pumayag ba si Miguel sa gusto ng diablo O sinaway nya ito??

Sagutin niyo to, mga kapatid kong Saksi ni Jehova. Magkapareho kasi ang pagkakabuo ng Awit 47:5 at I Tesalonica 4:16, kaya, huwag kayong umiwas! Ang nasa Awit 47:5, "ang Panginoon NA MAY tunog ng trumpeta," at sa I Tesalonica 4:16, "ang Panginoon.. NA MAY tinig ng arkanghel." Sagutin niyo.

Ito po ang sagot dyan.

Kaibigang Nagsusuri, mawalang galang na ano? Pero gusto ko lang tugunan ang ibinangon mong sagot. Ang sabi kasi sa Awit ay "MAY TUNOG ng pakakak", HINDI po "may TINIG ng pakakak." Ang nasa 1 Tesalonica, TINIG NG ARKANGHEL na taglay ng Panginoong Jesu-Kristo at HINDI TUNOG NG PAKAKAK. At hindi po iyan ang punto natin, ang punto rito ay "may tinig ng arkanghel" ang Panginoong Jesus, ang salitang arkanghel sa Bibliya ay lumilitaw sa isahang anyo lamang, at sa Judas 9 ay ipinakilala na ang arkanghel ay may pangalang Miguel, SAMAKATUWID, KUNG ang arkanghel ay lumilitaw sa pang-isahang anyo lamang at ito ay nginanlang Miguel at si Jesus ay may "tinig ng arkanghel", hindi ba makatuwirang IISA nga sila? Nasusundan nyo po ba?

Paano po ba naging magkapareho ang Awit 47:5 at 1 Tesalonica 4:16? Pakipaliwanag nga po?

Frostwhite wrote:
Kanino ba yung tinig na bubuhay sa mga patay ayon na 1 Tesalonica 4:16?


Kay Kristo, hindi kay Miguel Arkanghel.

E ayon naman pala e, e di sa kanya yung "commanding call" sa 1 Tesalonica 4:16.

Kaya nga, ang counter-question ko: Saan sa Biblia na sumaway si Miguel Arkanghel kay satanas? Pag wala sa Biblia, eh di, walang kakayahan na si Miguel Arkanghel ay sumaway kay satanas.

Gusto ko lang i-confirm Ginoo, ito bang konklusyon mo ay sigurado ka?

Frostwhite wrote:
May dala-dala ba Siyang trumpeta pagka bababa Siya mula sa langit?


Ano nga ba ang trumpeta dito G. Nagsusuri? Ano nga ba ang purpose nito?
May gusto lang akong linawing bagay. sabi "with God's trumpet", sa inyo bang paniniwala ay may humahawak nito?


Ano ba ang ginagawa sa trumpeta? Nilalakaran? O hinahawakan?

Nais ko po sana ng diretsang sagot.

Frostwhite wrote:

Huwag mong dadagdagan ang nakasulat, kapatid!

Sino ba ang nagdadagdag?

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010)
Because our Lord shall descend from Heaven with a command and with the voice of the Archangel and with the trumpet blast of God, and the dead who are in The Messiah shall rise first;

New International Version (1984)
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

New Living Translation (2007)
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves.

English Standard Version (2001)
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
The Lord will come from heaven with a command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet [call] of God. First, the dead who believed in Christ will come back to life.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first.

Weymouth New Testament
For the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven with a loud word of command, and with an archangel's voice and the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Huwag ka sanang magparatang G. Nagsusuri.

I Tesalonica 4:16
Sapagka't ang Panginoon din ang bababang mula sa langit, na may isang sigaw, may tinig ng arkanghel, at may pakakak ng Dios: at ang nangamatay kay Cristo ay unang mangabubuhay na maguli;

I Thessalonians 4:16, New American Standard Bible
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Meron bang "commanding call" sa talata, kapatid? Wala.

Sa orihinal na Griego, ang ginamit ay..

G2752
κέλευμα
keleuma
kel'-yoo-mah
From G2753; a cry of incitement: - shout.

Source: Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890.

Dagdag ba yan sa Banal na Kasulatan, o hindi?

ΠΡΟΣ ΘΕΣΣΑΛΟΝΙΚΕΙΣ Α΄ 4:16 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. with Diacritics
ὅτι αὐτός ὁ κύριος ἐν κέλευμα ἐν φωνή ἀρχάγγελος καί ἐν σάλπιγξ θεός καταβαίνω ἀπό οὐρανός καί ὁ νεκρός ἐν Χριστός ἀνίστημι πρῶτον

I Thessalonians 4:16, CODEX SINAITICUS Translation of H. T. Anderson
because the Lord himself, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, shall descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall arise first;
(Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.])

Makikihiram ako ng argumento:

Jehovah’s Witnesses try to use I Thessalonians 4:16 to claim that because “the Lord Himself” is coming “with the voice of an archangel” it means that Jesus is an archangel. Using that line of reasoning it must be equally true that since He is also coming “with the trumpet of God” it shows that He is God. Of course, they reject that. It may be best to see these three elements as separate things. Jesus Himself will shout--perhaps as a summons or command to the dead to come forth as with Lazarus in John 11:43 (Robert Picirilli, Randall House Bible Commentary on I Thessalonians, p. 71), an archangel (perhaps Michael but maybe another) will also use his voice to proclaim victory, and finally the trumpet of God will sound (I Cor. 15:52). Whether they happen all at the same time or in rapid succession is a matter of speculation. The point is that the verse does not prove that Jesus is an archangel.

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Makikihiram ulit ako ng argumento:

Daniel 10:13 provides another reason why Jesus cannot be Michael. In this verse, the archangel is called “one of the chief princes:”

"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

Since the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael, and Daniel 10:13 reveals that he is “one of the chief princes,” does this mean that Jesus has equals? According to the Watchtower, what are the names of Jesus’ peers? Could they tell you? Though the organization remains confident while instructing its followers that Jesus is one of the chief princes of Daniel 10:13, they are unable to identify the others so they could further explain their rationale. How convenient!

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Frostwhite wrote:

Kaya nga, ang counter-question ko: Saan sa Biblia na sumaway si Miguel Arkanghel kay satanas? Pag wala sa Biblia, eh di, walang kakayahan na si Miguel Arkanghel ay sumaway kay satanas.

Hindi mo ata nabasa ang post ko ukol dito Ginoo.


Ianalyze nating mabuti G. Nagsusuri. Ano ba ang gusto ni Satanas dito? Nagawa ba nya ang gusto nya? Bakit hindi nya nagawa ang gusto nya? Pumayag ba si Miguel sa gusto ng diablo O sinaway nya ito??

Ganito, kapatid. Kung mabasa ko sa Biblia na karakter ng mga anghel ang hindi sumaway sa diablo o kahit sa isang masamang tao?

Frostwhite wrote:

Frostwhite wrote:
Kanino ba yung tinig na bubuhay sa mga patay ayon na 1 Tesalonica 4:16?


Kay Kristo, hindi kay Miguel Arkanghel.

E ayon naman pala e, e di sa kanya yung "commanding call" sa 1 Tesalonica 4:16.

Yung sigaw, hindi "commanding call." Kung "commanding call" man, si Hesus ang sisigaw niyan.

Frostwhite wrote:

Sagutin niyo to, mga kapatid kong Saksi ni Jehova. Magkapareho kasi ang pagkakabuo ng Awit 47:5 at I Tesalonica 4:16, kaya, huwag kayong umiwas! Ang nasa Awit 47:5, "ang Panginoon NA MAY tunog ng trumpeta," at sa I Tesalonica 4:16, "ang Panginoon.. NA MAY tinig ng arkanghel." Sagutin niyo.

Ito po ang sagot dyan.

Kaibigang Nagsusuri, mawalang galang na ano? Pero gusto ko lang tugunan ang ibinangon mong sagot. Ang sabi kasi sa Awit ay "MAY TUNOG ng pakakak", HINDI po "may TINIG ng pakakak." Ang nasa 1 Tesalonica, TINIG NG ARKANGHEL na taglay ng Panginoong Jesu-Kristo at HINDI TUNOG NG PAKAKAK. At hindi po iyan ang punto natin, ang punto rito ay "may tinig ng arkanghel" ang Panginoong Jesus, ang salitang arkanghel sa Bibliya ay lumilitaw sa isahang anyo lamang, at sa Judas 9 ay ipinakilala na ang arkanghel ay may pangalang Miguel, SAMAKATUWID, KUNG ang arkanghel ay lumilitaw sa pang-isahang anyo lamang at ito ay nginanlang Miguel at si Jesus ay may "tinig ng arkanghel", hindi ba makatuwirang IISA nga sila? Nasusundan nyo po ba?

Paano po ba naging magkapareho ang Awit 47:5 at 1 Tesalonica 4:16? Pakipaliwanag nga po?

Kapatid, ano ba yung tinig? Tunog o hindi?

I Thessalonians 4:16, New American Standard Bible
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

NASB © Greek Transliteration Strong's Definition Origin
For the Lord κύριος kurios 2962 lord, master from kuros (authority)
Himself αὐτὸς autos 846 (1) self (emphatic) (2) he, she, it (used for the third pers. pron.) (3) the same an intensive pronoun, a prim. word
will descend καταβήσεται katabēsetai 2597 to go down from kata and the same as basis
from heaven οὐρανοῦ ouranou 3772 heaven a prim. word
with a shout, κελεύσματι keleusmati 2752 a shout of command from keleuó

Ayan po para naman maliwanagan ka Ginoo.

Makikihiram ako ng argumento:

Jehovah’s Witnesses try to use I Thessalonians 4:16 to claim that because “the Lord Himself” is coming “with the voice of an archangel” it means that Jesus is an archangel. Using that line of reasoning it must be equally true that since He is also coming “with the trumpet of God” it shows that He is God. Of course, they reject that. It may be best to see these three elements as separate things. Jesus Himself will shout--perhaps as a summons or command to the dead to come forth as with Lazarus in John 11:43 (Robert Picirilli, Randall House Bible Commentary on I Thessalonians, p. 71), an archangel (perhaps Michael but maybe another) will also use his voice to proclaim victory, and finally the trumpet of God will sound (I Cor. 15:52). Whether they happen all at the same time or in rapid succession is a matter of speculation. The point is that the verse does not prove that Jesus is an archangel.

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Uso pala plagiarism dito ano?
Paki-intindi po ang sinasabi diyan. At mangyaring kayo mismo ang magpaliwanag at ssagutin ko. Kasi nag-speculate lang naman ang nakasulat diyan.

Ganito, kapatid. Kung mabasa ko sa Biblia na karakter ng mga anghel ang hindi sumaway sa diablo o kahit sa isang masamang tao?

E paano pag nabasa kong mas masahol pa sa pagsaway ang Ginawa ni Miguel kay satanas?

Makikihiram ulit ako ng argumento:

Daniel 10:13 provides another reason why Jesus cannot be Michael. In this verse, the archangel is called “one of the chief princes:”

"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

Since the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael, and Daniel 10:13 reveals that he is “one of the chief princes,” does this mean that Jesus has equals? According to the Watchtower, what are the names of Jesus’ peers? Could they tell you? Though the organization remains confident while instructing its followers that Jesus is one of the chief princes of Daniel 10:13, they are unable to identify the others so they could further explain their rationale. How convenient!

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Maliwanag pong pangongopya ito. Nakakadalawa na kayo.
Ang hirap kasi sa gnayan ginoo nakikihiram ka ng mga ganyan e hindi ka naman sigurado kung tama ba ang sinabi o hindi e. hehe

Kapatid, ano ba yung tinig? Tunog o hindi?

Ang "tinig" ay espisipikong tunog.
Pero ano po ba ang klase ng sigaw ang nasa Awit 47:5 at anong klaseng sigaw ang nasa 1 Tesalonica 4:16? Maaring pakisuri po Ginoo. Salamat.

Frostwhite wrote:

Makikihiram ako ng argumento:

Jehovah’s Witnesses try to use I Thessalonians 4:16 to claim that because “the Lord Himself” is coming “with the voice of an archangel” it means that Jesus is an archangel. Using that line of reasoning it must be equally true that since He is also coming “with the trumpet of God” it shows that He is God. Of course, they reject that. It may be best to see these three elements as separate things. Jesus Himself will shout--perhaps as a summons or command to the dead to come forth as with Lazarus in John 11:43 (Robert Picirilli, Randall House Bible Commentary on I Thessalonians, p. 71), an archangel (perhaps Michael but maybe another) will also use his voice to proclaim victory, and finally the trumpet of God will sound (I Cor. 15:52). Whether they happen all at the same time or in rapid succession is a matter of speculation. The point is that the verse does not prove that Jesus is an archangel.

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Uso pala plagiarism dito ano?
Paki-intindi po ang sinasabi diyan. At mangyaring kayo mismo ang magpaliwanag at ssagutin ko. Kasi nag-speculate lang naman ang nakasulat diyan.

Kapatid, papaanong magiging plagiarism, eh sabi ko nga, "Makikihiram ako.." Mag-aral ka muna ng high school english, kapatid. Napakamaling paratang iyan, kapatid!

Plagiarism is when you use someone else's words or ideas and pass them off as your own. It's not allowed in school, college, or beyond, so it's a good idea to learn the proper way to use resources, such as websites, books, and magazines.

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Maghunusdili ka, kapatid. That is a blatant accusation. Kasi, kung plagiarism sana, hindi ko na pinost yung url ng website!

Frostwhite wrote:

Kapatid, ano ba yung tinig? Tunog o hindi?

Ang "tinig" ay espisipikong tunog.
Pero ano po ba ang klase ng sigaw ang nasa Awit 47:5 at anong klaseng sigaw ang nasa 1 Tesalonica 4:16? Maaring pakisuri po Ginoo. Salamat.

Ibig sabihin, ang tinig ay tunog. Sa Awit 47:5, sino ang may tunog ng trumpeta? Ang Dios o ang pumupuri sa Dios? Sagot, G. Frostwhite.

Frostwhite wrote:Makikihiram ulit ako ng argumento:

Daniel 10:13 provides another reason why Jesus cannot be Michael. In this verse, the archangel is called “one of the chief princes:”

"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

Since the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael, and Daniel 10:13 reveals that he is “one of the chief princes,” does this mean that Jesus has equals? According to the Watchtower, what are the names of Jesus’ peers? Could they tell you? Though the organization remains confident while instructing its followers that Jesus is one of the chief princes of Daniel 10:13, they are unable to identify the others so they could further explain their rationale. How convenient!

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Maliwanag pong pangongopya ito. Nakakadalawa na kayo.

Saang dictionary mo nabasa na ang panghihiram ay pangongopya? Kung ganyan ang inyong katuwiran, samakatuwid, ang Watch Tower, nangopya rin!

Was the name Jehovah used by the inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures?

Jerome, in the fourth century, wrote: “Matthew, who is also Levi, and who from a publican came to be an apostle, first of all composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed.” (De viris inlustribus, chap. III) This Gospel includes 11 direct quotations of portions of the Hebrew Scriptures where the Tetragrammaton is found. There is no reason to believe that Matthew did not quote the passages as they were written in the Hebrew text from which he quoted.

Source: Reasoning from the Scriptures

Oh, kung susundin ko ang katuwiran mo, nanghihiram din ang Watch Tower sa Iglesia Katolika. Brad, matuto ka ng tama at huwag padalos-dalos.

Frostwhite wrote:Uso pala plagiarism dito ano?

Hindi ko hahayaan ang ganyang paratang, kapatid. Maghunusdili ka, masamang paratang yan. Ni minsan, hindi kita pinagsabihan ng anuman .. kundi ng "maghunusdili ka."

Oh, kung susundin ko ang katuwiran mo, nanghihiram din ang Watch Tower sa Iglesia Katolika. Brad, matuto ka ng tama at huwag padalos-dalos.

Hndi nga po ba? e idea po yan ng sumulat e, may sarili naman kayong paliwanag at pagrarason ukol diyan, bakit kailangan nyo kunin yan? Oo nga po't kami'y nagqoute pero ito lamang ay sa reperensya.